Aug 02 2009

Charlotte Observer Lies About the Health Care Bill

Published by Bane Windlow at 11:49 am under Greater Charlotte, Health Care, North Carolina

My head wanted  to explode after reading this twisted, manipulative trash in the Charlotte Observer today, which not surprisingly is left unsigned by its author.  Can’t say that I blame him.  I wouldn’t want my name on that crap either.  In their usual form of attempting to protect their two year long investment in protecting Obama, they have printed an article in today’s paper painting this rosy picture of the Democrats’ health care proposals claiming that it’s not socialist, you can keep your own insurance, you can choose your doctor, basically contradicting everything that is actually in the bills.

Now there is still a lot of wheeling and dealing going on in the House and Senate, but that’s not what the Observer tells you.  They just flat out say, “Oh no, you silly.  That’s not how it’s going to be.  You don’t have to worry about that.”  wink, wink.

Here is the article. Let’s go through it.

Is it true that you would lose your current insurance if health care overhaul passes?

No. The aim of health care overhaul is to build on the existing system and expand insurance coverage, with the goal of health insurance coverage for everyone. If this legislation is enacted, expect insurance companies to be very busy writing new health policies for employers or employees. After five years, existing employer-based health plans would be required to provide “essential health benefits,” which would be defined by an independent health benefits advisory committee.

False!  The answer is a resounding yes and they even pointed it out in their response to the question after they just said no.  “If this legislation is enacted, expect insurance companies to be very busy writing new health policies for employers or employees.”  Duh!  Here is what that means by the way.  Investors Business Daily were the first ones to catch this provision and break the story a few weeks ago:

The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of “Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,” the “Limitation On New Enrollment” section of the bill clearly states:

“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.

So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won’t be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

From the beginning, opponents of the public option plan have warned that if the government gets into the business of offering subsidized health insurance coverage, the private insurance market will wither. Drawn by a public option that will be 30% to 40% cheaper than their current premiums because taxpayers will be funding it, employers will gladly scrap their private plans and go with Washington’s coverage.

The nonpartisan Lewin Group estimated in April that 120 million or more Americans could lose their group coverage at work and end up in such a program. That would leave private carriers with 50 million or fewer customers. This could cause the market to, as Lewin Vice President John Sheils put it, “fizzle out altogether.”

Investors Business Daily

Now here is the current text of H.R. 3200 that the Democrats in the House are trying to pass that address this.

    (a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
    • (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
      • (A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
      • (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.
    • (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.
    • (3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
    (b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans-
    • (1) GRACE PERIOD-
    (A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.

So what does all that mean? If you currently have private health insurance on day one when the law goes into effect in 2013 you are allowed to keep your current insurance. However, here is the caveat. Your company can’t change your plan. If they do, you are required to enroll in the government run insurance. You can’t change jobs. If you do, you are required to enroll in the government run insurance. And whether you do any of these things or not, your company has five years to move you and all of your co-workers into the government run insurance, or what they like to call health insurance exchanges. These exchanges are completely controlled by the government where they determine what is available and what coverage you are allowed to have whether you want them or not.

Why is the Charlotte Observer lying?

Then there is the part in the Observer article referencing independent health benefits advisory committee that will oversee these health insurance exchanges.  Independent?  Wow, if that’s not whizzing down my back and telling me it’s raining.  These will be political appointees!  What independence?

More from the Observer article:

Does health care reform mean socialized medicine?

No. The pending legislation relies on the private insurance sector to provide coverage, with the mandate that individuals and most employers participate.

Liberal Democrats, including President Obama, contend that a government entity should be created to sell health insurance and compete against private insurance companies. This is the “public plan” that proponents claim is needed to keep private insurance rates from going too high. Such a plan appears unlikely to win approval in any final legislation because of vociferous opposition from Republicans and conservative Democrats.

A public option is unlikely to win approval?  Well hell, it just passed in committee yesterday!

WASHINGTON — House members headed home on Friday, leaving behind the outlines of a nearly $1 trillion health care overhaul that is sure to draw fire from a variety of interests, but also shows the beginnings of a consensus that would provide insurance for more Americans and give them new rights in dealing with insurers.

As a final act before recessing until September, one crucial panel, the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, approved landmark health legislation that could ultimately lead to coverage for about 95 percent of Americans and create a new government-run insurance program.

The 31-to-28 vote occurred at 9:05 p.m. Friday, at the end of a session that began at 10 a.m. Five Democrats joined all 23 Republicans on the panel in voting no.

The New York Times

Gee, they didn’t tell you that part.  I already discussed the government run health insurance exchange in the House bill, now here is the Senate counterpart:

The Senate bill requires that Americans buying through the exchanges — and as we’ve seen, that will soon be most Americans — must get their care through something called “medical home.” Medical home is similar to an HMO. You’re assigned a primary care doctor, and the doctor controls your access to specialists. The primary care physicians will decide which services, like MRIs and other diagnostic scans, are best for you, and will decide when you really need to see a cardiologists or orthopedists.

Under the proposals, the gatekeepers would theoretically guide patients to tests and treatments that have proved most cost-effective. The danger is that doctors will be financially rewarded for denying care, as were HMO physicians more than a decade ago. It was consumer outrage over despotic gatekeepers that made the HMOs so unpopular, and killed what was billed as the solution to America’s health-care cost explosion.

CNN Money

So the government will choose your doctor for you.  They will decide whether or not you get to see a specialist and the doctors will be financially rewarded for guiding you through tests and treatments that are the most cost effective, not necessarily the best for your ailment.

This is not socialized medicine?  According to Messrs. Merriam and Webster Socialism is defined as any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.” That sure sounds like an accurate description of the health care plan to me.

Why is the Observer lying?

Then, this is the best one yet.  The Observer goes on to discuss rationing.  Are you ready for this?

Will there be government rationing of health care?

No. The new system would rely on private health plans where patients and physicians make decisions on medical care.

Right now, there is a form of rationing based on cost. An individual or an employer may choose different coverage plans based on how much they want to pay. Less expensive plans with high deductibles, for instance, might lead some policyholders to defer medical care. That form of price-based rationing would continue under the pending bills.

If that is not the biggest load of bullshit.  Having a higher deductible health care plan is not rationing.  That is you choosing to have a higher deductible plan because you probably don’t go to the doctor often and are electing that option on your own.  Many of those people also have Health Savings Accounts that are tax free to use to pay the doctor with when they do go.

When those of us in the real world, the one that exists outside the Utopian gates at 600 South Tryon St, talk about rationing we, of course, are speaking of the government denying necessary and life saving treatments to the people in an effort of cutting costs.  There is plenty of language in these bills and from the Obama administration, including what I have already cited, to suggest that this will happen here in the U.S. just like it happens every single day in Canada and Great Britain and other nations with socialized health care.

Here is an exerpt from the Wall Street Journal:

Tom Daschle, Mr. Obama’s original pick to head Health and Human Services, argues in his book “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis,” that we should accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments.” Mr. Daschle blames the “use and overuse of new technologies and treatments” for runaway health-care costs. He suggests a Federal Health Board modeled after the British “NICE” board to make decisions on health-care rationing.

But the British system is infamous for denying state-of-the-art drugs to cancer patients. Thus cancer-survival rates in Britain are far below those in America, just as they are in Canada.

Canadian cancer patients told to wait months for treatment and diagnostic scans frequently go south and pay out-of-pocket for care in the United States. A number of Quebeckers even sued their government for violating their “right to life and security” under the Quebec Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Canada’s Supreme Court has acknowledged the pervasive rationing that occurs. In the 2005 case Chaoulli v. Quebec (Attorney General) , the majority opinion stated: “The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care.”

Despite such evidence, the Obama plan is likely to target various treatments—including radiology scans—in order to cut costs. I survived this long because my radiologist examines each of my scans with me in detail.

One of those scans also saved my life by picking up unsuspected uterine cancer. The congressional majority seems blissfully unaware that all cancer patients need those scans to monitor their diseases.

Or you can read about the story of Karen Jepp who had to drive from Calgary, Alberta, one of the wealthiest parts of Canada, to Great Falls, Montana to deliver her quadruplets because there were not enough neo-natal beds in any Calgary hospital to accommodate her.

Or take a gander over to the UK Times Online and read about their National Health Service’s plan that was denying people doctor appointments in order to ration care bring down costs.

I can direct you to dozens more of these examples, but I think you get the point.

Why is the Observer lying?

Then there is this question about the demographics of the uninsured in this country:

Is it true that people who are currently uninsured have money but choose not to be insured or they are illegal immigrants?

No. A study by the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation found:

45 million people under age 65 had no health insurance coverage in 2007. Current estimates are that this number has risen to about 50 million because of the increase in unemployment and the loss of employer-provided health coverage.

66 percent of the uninsured were either poor or nearly poor, as defined by the federal poverty level.

Young adults, ages 19-29, constitute a large share of the uninsured, mostly because of their low incomes.

79 percent of the uninsured were U.S. citizens. (Noncitizens were about three times more likely to be uninsured than citizens because noncitizens had less access to employer coverage. Noncitizens are more likely to have low-wage jobs with employers who do not offer coverage.)

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for coverage under pending legislation.

Let’s talk about illegal immigrants.  I direct you to Section 152 of H.R. 3200:

SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

    (a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.
    (b) Implementation- To implement the requirement set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act are provided (whether directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.

That’s rather vague, isn’t it?  “All health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.” That sounds pretty clear to me that nobody will be denied for any reason.  They make no exception for people here illegally.  I imagine if someone is here visiting from another country and they have to go to the hospital they are going to get treated, right?  Are they going to stop and check their citizenship and see if they have a visa?  Will they refuse them if they don’t?  It doesn’t sound like it.  The wording in this bill infers that illegals will be treated, but the answer is inclusive at this point in time.  That is not what the Observer told you, however.  They flat out said they would not be covered.

Why is the Observer lying?

Regarding who is uninsured and why, Lou Dobbs of CNN had a different set of numbers:

When President Obama and his supporters talk about the urgency of sweeping health care reform, they use a fairly impressive figure to make their point: “We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children.”

To be exact, 45.7 million is the number of people who told the Census Bureau that they do not have insurance, or did not at least at some point in 2007. The number was down from 47 million the year before.

But here is what, as best we can judge, what that number includes: 12 million people who are eligible for public health insurance program, including Medicaid or SCHIP, or for whatever reason don’t participate. And
among the estimated 10 million non-citizens who lack health insurance, an estimated 7 million illegal aliens as well. And some 7 million uninsured individuals, many of them young adults who earn at least $40,000 a year, and who may have chosen to not take health insurance because they thought they didn’t need it. Keep in mind, that the number, 46 million, refers to the number of people who say they’ve gone without health insurance at some point during the past year, when asked by the Census Bureau, not necessarily the entire year. That figure, according to the Congressional Budget Office, is closer to 20 million to 30 million.

And the number actually, without insurance, but in need of health care insurance, arguably, 10 million. So let’s slow down, look at the FACTS, and try to reform health care the way it should be: based on Truth and Fact.

So who has the right numbers?  Unlike the Observer I am going to be truthful to you.  I don’t know, but this goes to show you that there is a wide deviation of the statistics out there, so don’t be too quick to latch on to the claims of just one outlet just because they may fit your viewpoint.

Then on the government and your doctor, the Observer answers the following question:

Is it true that government bureaucrats will come between me and my doctor?

No. Most Americans would continue to have private health insurance.

I already debunked this above.  The Observer isn’t telling the truth.

It infuriates me to no end that we cannot have an objective media in this country when we have so much at stake.  I can only hope the American people will have enough sense to see through this ruse.  Public support for this plan has steeply declined, which gives me hope, but the month of August will be the real test.  The extreme left will be out in full force trying to con the American people into letting them destroy our health care system.  Then there are those of us who will fight to maintain our freedom, liberty, and the quality of  our health care system, the best in the world.  The mainstream media will evidently not be on our side, but that’s nothing new.

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20 responses so far

20 Responses to “Charlotte Observer Lies About the Health Care Bill”

  1. jacksmithon 02 Aug 2009 at 1:33 pm

    LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY. (Thomas Paine)

    We have the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed world. Conservative estimates are that over 120,000 of you dies each year in America from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don’t die from. Rich, middle class, and poor a like. Insured and uninsured. Men, women, children, and babies. This is what being 37th in quality of healthcare means.

    I know that many of you are angry and frustrated that REPUBLICANS! In congress are dragging their feet and trying to block TRUE healthcare reform. What republicans want is just a taxpayer bailout of the DISGRACEFUL GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance industry, and the DISGRACEFUL GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare industry. A trillion dollar taxpayer funded private health insurance bailout is all you really get without a robust government-run public option available on day one. Co-OP’s ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR A GOVERNMENT-RUN PUBLIC OPTION. They are a fraud being pushed by the GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance industry that is KILLING YOU!

    YOU CANT HAVE AN INSURANCE MANDATE WITHOUT A ROBUST PUBLIC OPTION. MANDATING PRIVATE FOR PROFIT HEALTH INSURANCE AS YOUR ONLY CHOICE WOULD BE A DISASTER AND UNETHICAL, CORRUPT, AND MORALLY REPUGNANT. AND PROBABLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL AS WELL.

    These industries have been slaughtering you and your loved ones like cattle for decades for profit. Including members of congress and their families. These REPUBLICANS are FOOLS!

    Republicans and their traitorous allies have been trying to make it look like it’s President Obama’s fault for the delays, and foot dragging. But I think you all know better than that. President Obama inherited one of the worst government catastrophes in American history from these REPUBLICANS! And President Obama has done a brilliant job of turning things around, and working his heart out for all of us.

    But Republicans think you are just a bunch of stupid, idiot, cash cows with short memories. Just like they did under the Bush administration when they helped Bush and Cheney rape America and the rest of the World.

    But you don’t have to put up with that. And this is what you can do. The Republicans below will be up for reelection on November 2, 2010. Just a little over 13 months from now. And many of you will be able to vote early. So pick some names and tell their voters that their representatives (by name) are obstructing TRUE healthcare reform. And are sellouts to the insurance and medical lobbyist.

    Ask them to contact their representatives and tell them that they are going to work to throw them out of office on November 2, 2010, if not before by impeachment, or recall elections. Doing this will give you something more to do to make things better in America. And it will make you feel better too.

    There are many resources on the internet that can help you find people to call and contact. For example, many social networking sites can be searched by state, city, or University. Be inventive and creative. I can think of many ways to do this. But be nice. These are your neighbors. And most will want to help.

    I know there are a few democrats that have been trying to obstruct TRUE healthcare reform too. But the main problem is the Bush Republicans. Removing them is the best thing tactically to do. On the other hand. If you can easily replace a democrat obstructionist with a supportive democrat, DO IT!

    You have been AMAZING!!! my people. Don’t loose heart. You knew it wasn’t going to be easy saving the World. :-)

    God Bless You

    jacksmith — Working Class

    I REST MY CASE (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/)

    Republican Senators up for re-election in 2010.

    * Richard Shelby of Alabama
    * Lisa Murkowski of Alaska
    * John McCain of Arizona
    * Mel Martinez of Florida
    * Johnny Isakson of Georgia
    * Mike Crapo of Idaho
    * Chuck Grassley of Iowa
    * Sam Brownback of Kansas
    * Jim Bunning of Kentucky
    * David Vitter of Louisiana
    * Kit Bond of Missouri
    * Judd Gregg of New Hampshire
    * Richard Burr of North Carolina
    * George Voinovich of Ohio
    * Tom Coburn of Oklahoma
    * Jim DeMint of South Carolina
    * John Thune of South Dakota
    * Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas
    * Bob Bennett of Utah

    [Reply]

  2. Brittancuson 02 Aug 2009 at 5:37 pm

    For months now since Health care reform suddenly become the main issue on the national agenda. We have been bombarded with the incessant accusation that the English/British form of the single-payer system is about unequivocal–RATIONING? YES! This is the truth now, but it wasn’t always that way. It wasn’t until the Globalist plan to take over the originally named Common Market, that health care in England started to suffer. In Jan. 1, 1973, original known to Brits as the Common Market. The “One Market” that was created in 1993 states that people, money, services, and trade can move freely within the European Union. Currently over 450 million EU citizens are provided with these special options.

    The indigenous British people’s lives had already been disrupted by the importation of cheap labor from Commonwealth countries to drive the buses and run British Railway. Then family unification started and illegal immigration and the beginning of spiraling crime. RATIONING AND REDUCED HEALTH CARE CAME TO ENGLAND WITH AN OVERLOAD OF LEGAL AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, SUDDENLY THE UNITED KINGDOM FOUND THEMSELVES IN A TERRIBLE QUANDARY OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSAND OF REFUGEES AND ASYLUM SEEKERS. ALL PAID FOR BY THE BRITISH/ENGLISH TAXPAYER.

    In spite of the restrictive immigration policies which have been in place since the 1970s in most Member States Of The European Union, large numbers of legal and illegal migrants have continued to come to the EU together with asylum-seekers and illegal labor. Taking advantage of individuals seeking an improved life, smuggling and skin trafficking networks have taken hold across the EU. The inception of these relative dates in when one of the greatest Universal Health care system, came to a grinding halt of quality.

    The system was simple? You paid your insurance stamps and the employer paid his? End of story. The years I worked in the Mother country, I received three minor surgeries, teeth and dentistry, and eye care. WITH NO PREMIUMS, NO-PAYS, NO DEDUCTIONS AND CERTAINLY NO PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS? ONCE I SPENT THREE MONTHS IN EAST GRINSTEAD HOSPITAL WITH A BACK PROBLEM. MY COST–NOTHING! WE CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT SUPPORT THE MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS AND FAMILIES WITH TRILLION DOLLAR HEALTH CARE. IT WILL LEAD TO RATIONING ON A GRAND SCALE! AS ALWAYS THE TAXPAYER WILL FOOT THE BILL FOR BUSINESS WELFARE.

    CALL YOUR POLITICIAN IN WASHINGTON 202-224-3121 I Want a health care system–even government run. BUT IT”S SURE TO FAIL, IF TAXES ARE BEING EXTORTED TO PAY FOR FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS? Support for the bi-partisan E-VERIFY PART OF THE SAVE Act, which will expand E-Verify and protect American Workers! We must focus on the behemoth problem in terminating illegal immigrants-and the jobs that attract illegal aliens. WE WILL ALWAYS BE PAYING FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS, UNLESS WE DO SOMETHING NOW? Many GOP members are against a Path to citizenship for lawbreakers, so we mostly need the phones ringing in the ears of Democrats, who see the millions of illegal aliens as a positive voting block.

    WE MUST STOP IT NOW OF SUFFER FROM IRREVERSIBLE POPULATION GROWTH.

    DEMAND NO AMNESTY! NO FAMILY UNIFICATION KNOWN AS CHAIN MIGRATION! BUILD THE ORIGINAL FENCE! NO MORE HEALTH CARE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF BENEFITS FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. CLOSE THE BORDER AND STATION THE NATIONAL GUARD. $2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS, JUST IN RETIREMENT BENEFITS? Learn uncorrupted facts at NUMBERSUSA.
    Copy, Paste and Distribute freely

    [Reply]

  3. daleon 03 Aug 2009 at 7:27 am

    One thing:

    On coverage for illegal immigrants. On page 132 it stipulates one has to be “lawfully present” to be eligible.

    [Reply]

  4. Bane Windlowon 03 Aug 2009 at 8:34 am

    Ah, good catch.

    [Reply]

  5. easy brownon 04 Aug 2009 at 9:58 pm

    jacksmith, i am with you. vote the spendocrats out of office in 2010! except you want the gop out. i want the liars and thieves out. i don’t care what party they are for! being a schill for the spendys is just being another death nail in our countries economy.

    [Reply]

  6. CharlieBrownon 14 Aug 2009 at 11:06 am

    Let the gov’t fix the Veterans Administration Health care and I will consider their proposal to run the US Healthcare system. Make it mandatory for all US Senators, Representatives, and the President to have the same health care and I will consider it. Until that happens stay out of it. Do what the Constitution instructs government. To provide infrastrcture. The government is supposed to be by the people and for the people. They are to serve not be served. When government office changed from being a service to the Country to a career it began to fail the people.

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  7. Billon 19 Aug 2009 at 4:25 pm

    Your analysis of the grandfathering definition is incorrect. What you quoted is a section defining the term “grandfathered health coverage”. It is saying that if an plan enrolls individuals after Y1, it’s not considered grandfathered.

    It is NOT saying that nobody can buy private insurance after Y1. That would defeat the purpose of the bill, which is to foster competition, not eliminate it.

    But cheer up, you’re not alone. Investors Business Daily made the same mistake.

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  8. Bane Windlowon 19 Aug 2009 at 5:12 pm

    Bill, you are wrong. First off, H.R. 3200 is not about competition because the government isn’t competition when it can fix the way the game is played and print as much money as it wants. The health care bill is about taking us to a single payer government run health care system as Obama himself has said as well as several other Democrats.

    Regarding the grandfathering clause, those who do not have private insurance through their employers at the time the law would go into effect have to either go on the public option, if there still is one, or purchase a policy through a government managed and regulated health care exchange. The government will tell you what policies you are allowed to have and what coverage you are allowed to get. There is nothing private about it.

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  9. Billon 20 Aug 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Bane, you are wrong. Educate yourself. Read page 16 of H.R. 3200. The section she quoted is a part of a definition of grandfathering and is not a restriction on private insurance. This bill will lower costs by competing with private insurance, not outlawing it.

    [Reply]

  10. Billon 20 Aug 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Please tell me where in H.R. 3200 that it says you have to go on the public option. It’s an OPTION!

    The grace period section you quoted is to help consumers compare apples to apples by presenting comparable policies.

    Sorry for calling you “she”. :)

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  11. Billon 20 Aug 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Hmm, I see what you’re saying. You’re saying if the government regulates the health care exchange, the companies in them are no longer private. I disagree. The government regulates private business all the time without “running” them.

    The government competes with private companies (like FedEx) without driving them out of business.

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  12. LogicConnectionon 21 Aug 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Bill,

    Read Orwell. It’s called doublespeak. It’s not an option if you have to provide your employees with health coverage or face a penalty, and it’s not an option if you choose to personally go without health care because you can’t afford it (like someone I know very well…) but then face a $2,500 penalty.

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  13. Terrellon 23 Aug 2009 at 8:08 pm

    Uh Bill. Please do some research. Fed Ex does not deliver first class mail. The Post Office has a government financed monopoly on that. You are comparing apples to oranges.

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  14. Billon 24 Aug 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Terrell, the Post Office offers overnight delivery, which is FedEx’s specialty. I didn’t say the two were identical, I said they compete, because they do. Yet FedEx is still in business.

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  15. Billon 24 Aug 2009 at 4:21 pm

    LogicConnection, I don’t like the mandate part of it either. I’d rather see them just expand Medicare to anyone who wants it. That would provide enough competition to lower costs all around, but people who want to pay top dollar for private insurance could still do so.

    [Reply]

  16. Bane Windlowon 24 Aug 2009 at 8:23 pm

    Bill – “You’re saying if the government regulates the health care exchange, the companies in them are no longer private. I disagree. The government regulates private business all the time without “running” them.”

    Not exactly what I mean. The government won’t simply be regulating, they will be running the show. Right now there are hundreds of various health care plans offered by insurance companies around the country ranging from cheap high deductible plans to expensive platinum level plans. From what I have read and heard that will no longer be the case under the government run health insurance exchange. Everyone, regardless of where you’re employed, will have to choose from a handful of the exact same policies that are government approved. You may go through a private insurer to obtain it, but that’s as private as it’s going to get.

    Regarding expanding Medicare to who ever wants it that would be a looming disaster. For one, Medicare is insolvent and heading for bankruptcy like everything else the government touches. Adding tens of millions of additional people to the program is not mathematically possible without dire economic consequences. Furthermore, if anyone is able to just sign up for Medicare, that’s a wide open door to a single payer system. Companies will just start dropping their employer provided coverage and force everyone on to Medicare.

    [Reply]

  17. LogicConnectionon 25 Aug 2009 at 9:37 am

    Bill,

    The USPS outsources all its overnight deliveries to FedEx. The USPS can’t even guarantee next morning delivery like FedEx and UPS, they just guarantee your package will arrive the next day at some point. If the USPS was a private entity, it would have gone out of business a long time ago, it survives now solely because it is heavily subsidized by taxpayers.

    If you don’t like mandates being forced on individuals and business owners, why are you supporting government run health care in the form of H.R. 3200, or whatever final form it takes?

    [Reply]

  18. Billon 25 Aug 2009 at 3:52 pm

    LogicConnection, I didn’t know that about the outsourcing. Thanks for setting me straight.

    I don’t believe I said I support H.R. 3200; I seldom support anything 100%. There are parts of it I like, such as banning rescission (which is canceling insurance for trumped up reasons — basically killing people for money) and allowing people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage. But as I said, I don’t like the mandate. As I understand it, that was put in to control costs by creating a larger pool of funds. There are subsidies for people who can’t pay full price.

    My first choice would be to expand Medicare but still allow people to buy supplemental private insurance. Apparently that’s off the table. Something needs to be done, so I’m hoping we the people can shape these proposals into something workable and good for the country. If we do nothing, healthcare costs will just eat more and more of our GDP.

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  19. Bane Windlowon 25 Aug 2009 at 6:55 pm

    Bill – “There are parts of it I like, such as banning rescission (which is canceling insurance for trumped up reasons — basically killing people for money) and allowing people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage.”

    I agree with you on that one, Bill.

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  20. old manon 27 Aug 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Bill – LogicConnectionon know nothing about the operations of the USPS

    Overnite mail (Express mail) is guaranteed delivered or your money back. Before 12 PM in most cases)
    FedEx is contracted by USPS to carry ALL mail transported by air(cheaper for one plane in the air then two)
    USPS receives no tax payer money, it is supported only by the .44 cent stamps you buy.
    The Postal service is the only federal goverment agency that has to pay retirement to its employess for their military service

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